CacheWalker

Caching => General Caching => Topic started by: Griff Grof on June 09, 2014, 05:44:43 pm

Title: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on June 09, 2014, 05:44:43 pm
I know @walktall has run a Weekly Poll for this, and we've delved in to the topic a little elsewhere, but thought that we should have a thread!

http://www.wherigo.com (http://www.wherigo.com) is still in beta  :o The Wherigo Player and Builder haven't been updated since 2008  ::)

And now Lab Caches (http://cachewalker.createaforum.com/general-caching/lab-caches-moan/) seem to be a focus for GS.

We've been hoping for a while that GS would do something about Wherigos. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Wherigo caches not originally part of Wherigo? Perhaps the object of Wherigo is slowly being defeated, and has it really taken the Geocaching community by storm? - it must be the least-placed physical cache type  :(

Ultimately, do you think Wherigo has seen its day? And more importantly, do you want it to? Where would you go from here if you were in charge of GS?
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on June 09, 2014, 06:11:28 pm
There is work on other sites:

(http://wherigo.rangerfox.com/rangerfox/wherigo/kit/images/homesplashes/splash1.jpg) (http://wherigo.rangerfox.com/)

Welcome to Earwigo - the Wherigo™ Web Builder (http://www.earwigo.net/WWB/wiki/doku.php?id=start)
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Y6GST on June 09, 2014, 08:10:44 pm
I have used the Earwigo builder to create and publish one Wherigo cartridge/cache so far, I do have plans for others but it does take quite some time to create and test them, I wouldn't have said they were dying, far from it, in fact it looks like the community has taken it on board so while the groundspeak Wherigo player/builder is still stuck in beta there are alternatives that work very well, in my limited experience.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: L8HNB on June 09, 2014, 10:14:39 pm
They've been in the rubbish bin ever since we did one not long after they came out, we actually did it twice as we were caching with a Mio PDA that could handle the software, we then went around again a few weeks later with other local cachers so they could get the smiley.  When we did it the first time we spent most of the time looking at the Mio which we felt detracted from the caching experience.  This was confirmed, for us, when we went around again and enjoyed the walk.
I think Garmin have dropped Wherigo from its latest GPS's.
H.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on June 09, 2014, 10:48:36 pm
On my list 'to do' is build and publish a Wherigo.

GS are killing it off by not doing anything with it. Garmin as H. said, haven't got it on its newer units BUT there is community support for it and I think there is life in it yet.

Yes my first Wherigo (a FTF :) ) on a iPaq PDA was painful, it took me over 10 mins to get the first hotspot; I couldn't get the distance to go below 1ft until eventually after walking in and out multiple times from different directions, I finally got there ::)

It offers an informative interface and adds an extra dimension to a multi-cache. But, at the same time (on my Oregon 300) the interface needs desperate update because it could be so much clearer.

As I think I've mentioned before, I did a Wherigo that had no cache at the end :o It was done as a locals guide to their city, Prague, I enjoyed it as it took me to some interesting sites :)

As I think we all know, GS gets an idea and then seems to get bored of it and dumped for the new shiny toy  >:(
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Bear and Ragged on June 10, 2014, 12:02:04 am
There was 'something' mentioned on the GS forums ages ago...

GS were working with Garmin, and the two 'fell out' when Garmin started their own listing site.
(Or was it, Garmin started their own listing site when things weren't all  tickety-boo with Wherigo?  ;))

Ranger Fox seems to be working on things, but without financial input, and a decent hand from GS (who have copyright/trademarks/intellectual rights etc) isn't going too quick.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on June 10, 2014, 06:10:40 pm
Tested a Wherigo round my village today, which I built a short while ago but hadn't complied and tested it till today :)

It was a simple go to answer a question and move on type and worked without issue on my Oregon 300 ;D
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on June 11, 2014, 12:39:47 pm
I wouldn't have said they were dying, far from it, in fact it looks like the community has taken it on board so while the groundspeak Wherigo player/builder is still stuck in beta there are alternatives that work very well, in my limited experience.

I agree with this actually, and there have been quite a few new Wherigos recently. I think it's the fact that, maybe, people feel they'd be unsupported officially by GS in the making of their cartridge, so perhaps this puts people off?

When we did it the first time we spent most of the time looking at the Mio which we felt detracted from the caching experience.  This was confirmed, for us, when we went around again and enjoyed the walk..
This sounds a little familar, it's happened on a couple for me. Sometimes when they haven't been tested over, and over and over they send you here, there and everywhere. A little like a Wherigo I did with @walktall prior to the Geolympix Mega, it wasn't really sure where it was going at first and it took some time for it to work completely fluently.

Tested a Wherigo round my village today, which I built a short while ago but hadn't complied and tested it till today :)

It was a simple go to answer a question and move on type and worked without issue on my Oregon 300 ;D

And that's interesting, is it just a dummy or will you develop it in to a proper Wherigo cache in the future?
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on June 11, 2014, 01:51:24 pm
And that's interesting, is it just a dummy or will you develop it in to a proper Wherigo cache in the future?

Just a test one :)

Thought of three places I would do one: Bourton, Stow or Sherborne (with the cache outside the NT area)
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on June 11, 2014, 08:17:26 pm
Each of those locations sound exciting - that'd be good  ;D

Maybe the official Wherigo site could be taken over by someone other than GS. I do think that it can still grow and improve so much more.

Something I've never known is whether or not Wherigo caches are allowed to virtual, should the area not be at all suited for a physical cache?
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Bear and Ragged on June 11, 2014, 09:21:44 pm
Each of those locations sound exciting - that'd be good  ;D

Maybe the official Wherigo site could be taken over by someone other than GS. I do think that it can still grow and improve so much more.

Something I've never known is whether or not Wherigo caches are allowed to virtual, should the area not be at all suited for a physical cache?

You can make a Wherigo without a cache (container) at the end.
It can be listed on the Wherigo site.

To be listed on the caching site, and count on the caching site as a Found, it HAS to have a physical cache at the end.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on June 12, 2014, 02:17:08 pm
Well, had a walk/cycle round Bourton and I've got the start of a route for my Wherigo and even a possible hiding spot for a large cache :o :)
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on June 13, 2014, 03:42:44 pm
Thanks B&R, and that's great news WT!

Do you mean Large as in the Large size?  ???

Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on June 13, 2014, 07:47:50 pm
Do you mean Large as in the Large size?  ???

Correct :)
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on June 13, 2014, 10:06:54 pm
Wow  ;D Proper Large caches are so rare now!

Presumably the spot is outside the town?  :D
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on June 14, 2014, 11:11:18 pm
Had an interesting chat with Mze****a (user named stared out by the system! - M z e b o n g a) about Wherigos after the Splash Mob Event.

Apparently, the company who originally developed the underlining code for Wherigo pulled out sometime ago, hence why there has been no further development, as GS would have to get another company to take on the development, presumably at some cost.

This begs the question, who owns the code, does GS or the original company who developed it?
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on June 15, 2014, 08:36:43 am
That's interesting and possibly does explain why it is still in Beta. I reckon GS bought the code, but, as you implied, cannot develop it any further.

M z e b o n g a should sign up (if it allows his username  :D) and share more of this - wonder how he knew. I always thought it was 100% Groundspeak's.

Do you think that GS will EVER get round to doing something to advance Wherigo themselves?
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on June 15, 2014, 09:17:10 am
Do you think that GS will EVER get round to doing something to advance Wherigo themselves?

You could say actions speak louder than words and even after many many requests to further develop Wherigo from the community and GS claiming that they will - nothing has happened :(
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on July 21, 2014, 02:03:26 pm
Went yesterday to Worcester to collect some furniture and after the talk at the Event on Saturday about the Reverse Cache Wherigo (http://coord.info/GC4VVN1), I noticed with a divert I could give this one a go, so off I went.

Got to GZ, did the preliminary information find which you need to, before you start the cartridge. Went to the list and it wasn't there :o :(

I was sure I downloaded it and put it in the correct folder. Re-started my GPS, it still wasn't there, grrrr :( Lovely gardens at Coughton Court and found a tradition cache so all wasn't lost but....

Got home and looked via the PC and it was there.

Turns out, I had too many cartridges in the folder, so some didn't display :( :(

I wasn't aware of that limitation and after a bit of web surfing, couldn't find it mentioned anywhere for an Oregon 300. Will have to experiment to find how many is too many.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on July 21, 2014, 08:22:34 pm
That's weird - I didn't know there was a limit either  :o Perhaps I should delete the ones I have loaded on there.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Bear and Ragged on July 21, 2014, 09:04:46 pm
As a starting point, how many did you have loaded?
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on July 21, 2014, 09:54:28 pm
The limit appears to be 25, I had 30 and hadn't noticed some were not displaying.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Bear and Ragged on July 22, 2014, 10:09:12 pm
Posted in the Groundspeak forums...

Quote
Posted Today, 08:56 PM
1) Released in 2008, Wherigo was ahead of its time. It would have done better as an app, but smartphones weren't available during that time, much less app stores. Thus, few people possessed the devices on which Wherigo was initially developed to play. This led to a less spectacular reception than was most likely anticipated.

2) Wherigo had a high learning curve. While Groundspeak's builder was full-featured, it didn't do much to help non-programmers learn Wherigo. I think Groundspeak wanted to wait a while to see what the community would do with Wherigo.

3) Shortly after Wherigo's release, Groundspeak had to pursue Project Phoenix, a major upgrade of geocaching.com. This took a lot of their attention away.

4) Those responsible for Wherigo left the company before Groundspeak could return to Wherigo. This included dismantling the group J2B2. There was no one left with knowledge of the project.
5) It is easier to invest resources into geocaching because Groundspeak knows how to make money off it. Creating the software the Wherigo Foundation has developed to date would be a major undertaking for Groundspeak and likely involve great cost with an unknown way to garner a return on investment. Besides, I don't know how many people there actually know how Wherigo works.

While I've been told there is a lot of internal interest in returning to Wherigo, I have not personally witnessed this excitement because I usually only keep in contact with one person. They will, apparently, do things at their own pace, as they've always done. To my knowledge, Groundspeak has three moves: do nothing and drag this out (low risk, low cost), partner with the Wherigo Foundation volunteers (high risk, low cost), or begin developing Wherigo themselves (medium risk, high cost).

Every time I think about this situation, I wonder about Waymarking...

--\/- Ranger Fox
Groundspeak Volunteer - Wherigo Forum Moderator
Wherigo Foundation - Founder

Linky > http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=324273&view=findpost&p=5404871


In response to:

Quote
Posted Yesterday, 12:07 PM
Why hasnt Groundspeak spent more time on Wherigo? It is so hard to build a game... I love doing Wherigo geocaches but i want to build and make my own. But i am not having any luck with making my own.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on July 23, 2014, 09:14:24 am
That's really interesting, thankyou for posting this here @Bear and Ragged  :)

I thought Wherigo did have an app now  ??? Or was that just Geocaching Challenges  ???

I have always wondered why GS launched Wherigo and Waymarking, I have a feeling they were simply trying to prove they were more than Geocaching, which wasn't even their idea  :D It seems poorly thought-out.

Which of those options do you think GS will go with?  ???

Sadly, I do have a feeling they'll "do nothing and drag this out"  :(

Talking about Waymarking, that gives me an idea for a similar thread (http://cachewalker.createaforum.com/general-caching/will-waymarking-merge-back-with-geocaching/)  ;D
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on July 23, 2014, 09:31:38 am
Basically, it's the community that are developing Wherigo by creating easier ways to build a cartridges. And then there are the apps as well.

The Android app looks good, only used it once so far.
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on December 06, 2014, 05:32:13 pm
And it looks like there's a new way to create Wherigos, supposedly more easily...

Wherigo\\kit - wherigo.rangerfox.com (http://"http://wherigo.rangerfox.com")

Quote
With Wherigo\\kit, you can create a cartridge precisely as you see it--right on a live map! Create zones, drag them where you need, and even adjust a zone's GPS coordinates for maximum precision!
Adding actions when a user enters a zone has never been easier! All actions automatically happen after each other--no special knowledge, coding, or tricks are required! If you ever need to rearrange actions in a zone, simply drag and drop to reorder them!
What does this all mean? It means you can create a complete cartridge in as little as five minutes!

Maybe there's some hope, but it doesn't seem like GS is any more interested than before, this is clearly third-party  :-\
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: walktall on December 06, 2014, 08:54:47 pm
This is what I've been using but it was still in a beta form. My Bourton Wherigo was/is using this :)
Title: Re: Is Wherigo really heading to the dustbin?
Post by: Griff Grof on December 06, 2014, 09:47:08 pm
This is what I've been using but it was still in a beta form. My Bourton Wherigo was/is using this :)

Ohhh I had forgotten about that, how's it going?  ???